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**[SIDA] : le "VIH" ne cause pas le SIDA ** 1/3


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Comment rester isolé du coeur envers un discours pareil? Imaginez Jacques Chirac ou un autre chef d'etat occidental communiquer avec un tel profondeur? La "dissidence" ne concerne pas que le $IDA.


27 April 2004

The bright autumn sun smiles down on our people as we mark South Africa's Freedom Day, inaugurate the President of the Republic and celebrate our country's First Decade of Democracy.

We feel immensely honoured that on this happy day we have been granted the privilege to host the distinguished leaders and representatives of the peoples of the world who are with us here at this seat of our democratic government.

All our people extend a warm welcome to all our guests, as well as our deep-felt gratitude to you all, that you put aside everything to lend weight and dignity to our celebrations.

Your presence among us when we confronted the apartheid crime against humanity gave freedom the possibility to emerge triumphant. Your presence among us today expands our joy that freedom's opportunities have given us the possibility to begin the long walk to a life of dignity for all our people.

For too long our country contained within it and represented much that is ugly and repulsive in human society. It was a place in which happiness could only break through in short ephemeral bursts, briefly streaking across our skies like a dying comet.

It was a place in which to be born black was to inherit a lifelong curse. It was a place in which to be born white was to carry a permanent burden of fear and hidden rage.

It was a place that decreed that some were born into poverty and would die poor, their lives, in the land of gold and diamonds, cut short by the viral ravages of deprivation. It was a place where others always knew that the accident of their birth entitled them to wealth. Accordingly, these put aside all humane values, worshipping a world whose only worth was the accumulation of wealth.

It was a place where to be born a woman was to acquire the certainty that you would forever be a minor and an object owned by another, where to be a man was to know that there would always be another over whom you would exercise the power of a master.

It was a place in which squalor, the stench of poverty, the open sewers, the decaying rot, the milling crowds of wretchedness, the unending images of a landscape strewn with carelessly abandoned refuse, assumed an aspect that seemed necessary to enhance the beauty of another world of tidy streets, and wooded lanes, and flowers' blossoms offsetting the green and singing grass, and birds and houses fit for kings and queens, and lyrical music, and love.

It was a place in which to live in some places was to invite others to prey on you or to condemn oneself to prey on others, guaranteed neighbours who could not but fall victim to alcohol and drug stupors that would dull the pain of living, who knew that their lives would not be normal without murder in their midst, and rape and brutal personal wars without a cause.

It was a place in which to live in other neighbourhoods was to enjoy safety and security because to be safe was to be protected by high walls, electrified fences, guard dogs, police patrols and military regiments ready to defend those who were our masters, with guns and tanks and aircraft that would rain death on those who would disturb the peace of the masters.

For too long our country contained within it and represented much that is ugly and repulsive in human society.

It was a place in which those who cried out for freedom were promised and rewarded with the gift of the cold and silent grave. To rebel for liberty was to invite torture, prison, banishment, exile and death.

To say that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white, and to say that those classified as sub-human would fight to ensure that those who held them in bondage continue to live in the country of their birth without fear and without rage, was to invite the wrath of the masters.

It was a place in which those who were enraged knew that to kill those who promised freedom for all was to rid the world of the anti-Christ. To achieve their purposes that they considered holy, they did not think it wrong to murder children or to accumulate weapons of mass destruction, with a little help from their friends.

They thought it right that they should turn our country into a mighty and feared fortress, a base from which to launch armed raids to take away the freedom that Africa had won, to remove governments that would not compromise with racist tyranny, to place in power those who were willing to be intimidated, bought and corrupted, to kill and reduce whole countries to a wasteland, everywhere burning, burning, burning.

For too long our country contained within it and represented much that is ugly and repulsive in human society.

We have gathered here today, on Freedom Day, because in time, our people, together with the billions of human beings across the globe, who are our comrades-in-arms and whom our distinguished guests represent, decided to say - an end to all that!

When these risen masses acted to end what was ugly and repulsive in our country, they also made a statement that we who are now free, have an obligation to honour the trust they bestowed on us.

It would have been impossible for us to respect that obligation if the majority of our people had not decided to turn away from a past of division into mutually antagonistic racial and ethnic groups, choosing the path of national unity and reconciliation.

We chose what seemed impossible because to have done otherwise would have condemned all our people, black and white, to a bloody and catastrophic conflict. We are proud that everyday now, black and white South Africans discover that they are, after all, one another's keeper.

We are determined that where once we were the terrible exemplar of racist bigotry, we should now and in future testify to the possibility of building a stable and viable non-racial society.

We are greatly encouraged that our General Elections of a fortnight ago confirmed the determination of all our people, regardless of race, colour and ethnicity, to work together to build a South Africa defined by a common dream.

As we engaged in struggle to end racist domination, we also said that we could not speak of genuine liberation without integrating within that, the emancipation of women. This very amphitheatre where we sit is home to a monument that pays tribute to the contribution of the women of our country to the struggle that made it possible for us to meet here today to celebrate our 10th Anniversary of Democracy.

Our last General Elections confirmed the women as the largest number of voters and the strongest voice in favour of the fundamental social transformation of our country. No government in South Africa could ever claim to represent the will of the people if it failed to address the central task of the emancipation of women in all its elements, and that includes the government we are privileged to lead.

Three-and-a-half centuries of colonialism and apartheid have more than amply demonstrated that our country could never become governable unless the system of government is based on the will of the people.

Despite the fact that we are a mere 10 years removed from the period of racist dictatorship, it is today impossible to imagine a South Africa that is not a democratic South Africa. In reality it is similarly impossible to meet any of the enormous challenges we face, outside the context of respect for the principle and the practice that the people shall govern.

Nobody in our country today views democracy as a threat to their interests and their future. This includes our national, racial and political minorities. This is because we have sought to design and implement an inclusive democratic system, rather than one driven by social and political exclusion.

We are determined to ensure that no one ever has grounds to say he or she has been denied his or her place in the sun. Peace and our shared destiny impose an obligation on all of us to create the space for every South African to make his or her contribution to the shaping of our common destiny.

Endemic and widespread poverty continues to disfigure the face of our country. It will always be impossible for us to say that we have fully restored the dignity of all our people as long as this situation persists.

For this reason the struggle to eradicate poverty has been and will continue to be a central part of the national effort to build the new South Africa.

None of great social problems we have to solve is capable of resolution outside the context of the creation of jobs and the alleviation and eradication of poverty. This relates to everything, from the improvement of the health of our people, to reducing the levels of crime, raising the levels of literacy and numeracy, and opening the doors of learning and culture to all.

For a millennium there were some in the world who were convinced that to be African was to be less than human. This conviction made it easy to trade in human beings as slaves, to colonise countries and, today, to consign Africans to the periphery of global human society, as a fit object for sustenance through charitable donations.

Necessarily, the great journey we have undertaken has to be, and is about redressing the harm that was caused to all Africans. It is about overcoming the consequences of the assault that was made on our sense of pride, our identity and confidence in ourselves. Through our efforts, we must achieve the outcome that we cease to be beggars, and deny others the possibility to sustain racist prejudices that dehumanise even those who consider themselves superior.

We must use our human and material resources and the genius of our people to build an economy that addresses their needs, that gives us the means to end the wretchedness that continues to define some as being less human than others.

We share this and other goals with the rest of our continent and the African Diaspora, as well as the billions across the globe who continue to suffer as millions in our country do. Nothing can separate us from these masses with which we share a common destiny.

Rather, we must and will at all times strive to strengthen our links with them, together to determine what we must do to solve our shared problems. We are greatly inspired that having achieved the goal of the total liberation of Africa from colonial and white minority domination with the defeat of the apartheid regime, our Continent acted to establish the African Union and initiate its development programme, the New Partnership for Africa's Development.

Our common task is to ensure that these historic initiatives succeed in their objective of taking Africa forward to the victory of the African Renaissance. Democratic South Africa will play its role vigorously to promote the achievement of this gaol.

Our joy today, when we celebrate an African achievement, is tempered by the reality that we live in a troubled world. None of us can be indifferent to the violence that continues to claim lives in various countries in the Middle East, including Palestine, Israel, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. We cannot be indifferent to the acts of terrorism that took away many lives in Nairobi, Dar-es-Salaam, New York, Madrid and elsewhere.

Neither can we escape involvement in the struggle to confront the negative outcomes of the process of globalisation, the growing impoverishment of billions across the globe, and the failure of the multilateral institutions, including the United Nations, to respond quickly and effectively to the needs and aspirations of those who are poor and do not dispose of immense power.

Today we begin our Second Decade of Democracy. We are convinced that what has been achieved during the First demonstrates that as Africans we can and will solve our problems. We are equally certain that Africa will record new advances as she pursues the goal of a better life for all. She will do what she can to encourage a more equitable and humane new world order.

Having served as the prime example of human despair, Africa is certain to emerge as a place of human hope.

On this historic day, the beginning of our Second Decade of Democracy, I extend best wishes to all our people for A Happy Birthday! To our friends from and in all parts of the world, we say thank you for being with us on this momentous day.

We pledge to all the heroes and heroines who sacrificed for our freedom, as well as to you, our friends from the rest of the world, that we will never betray the trust you bestowed on us when you helped to give us the possibility to transform South Africa into a democratic, peaceful, non-racial, non-sexist and prosperous country, committed to the noble vision of human solidarity.

The work to create that South Africa has begun. That work will continue during our Second Decade of Freedom. That struggle continues and victory is certain!



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Le 3 eme paragraphe est impensable apparament il ne se pause pas de question sur sa santé apres ces années sans traitement

Furieux, des médecins et des militants de la lutte anti-sida ont mis en cause la responsabilité du ministre de la Santé, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, surnommé "Dr Ail" pour avoir prétendu que l'ail, l'huile d'olive et les médecines traditionnelles constituaient des remèdes contre le sida.

"Cela a vraiment provoqué de la confusion, de la souffrance, de la paralysie dans la mise en oeuvre (des traitements) et dans les politiques (anti-sida) pendant cinq ans, et ce à un coût exorbitant en termes de nouvelles infections et d'un taux élevé de mortalité", dénonce Zackie Achmat, responsable de l'association Treatment Action Campaign.

Cet homme de 41 ans, dont le nom a été évoqué pour un prix Nobel de la paix, a appris sa séropositivité en 1990. Mais, jusqu'en août dernier, il a refusé de prendre des anti-rétroviraux en solidarité avec le demi-million de malades sud-africains à un stade avancé qui n'ont pas les moyens de s'offrir ce type de traitements

Modifié par Bamboue
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Cet homme de 41 ans, dont le nom a été évoqué pour un prix Nobel de la paix, a appris sa séropositivité en 1990. Mais, jusqu'en août dernier, il a refusé de prendre des anti-rétroviraux en solidarité avec le demi-million de malades sud-africains à un stade avancé qui n'ont pas les moyens de s'offrir ce type de traitements

C'est justement parce qu'il n'a pas pris de traitements qu'il a été capable de faire une tournée aux EU cette année.

Par contre, lors du procès que le gouvernement sud-africain a soutenu contre les grands groupes pharmaceutiques qui ne voulaient pas baisser leurs prix, et où Zachie Achmat a soutenu le gouvernement Thabo Mbeki, on voit (Arte a retransmis en décembre 2002 une partie du procès) Zachie Achmat serrer très chaleureusement la main des avocats des groupes pharmaceutiques. Parfois je me demande si tout cela n'est pas un coup monté pour introduire les ARV en afrique du sud, et donc avoir ensuite un pied dans la place.

Pour la mortalité en 2002 et en afrique du Sud, il suffit de relire Rian Malan, de rechercher les statistiques, pour voir que les estimations officielles de la mortalité due au Sida sont passées de 300000 à 65000, simplement parce que les premiers chiffres étaient complètement manipulés. Maintenant que dire des seconds?...

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Oui, la circoncision réduit bien le risque de contamination par le VIH

Mettant un terme à la controverse sur ce point, une équipe américano-indienne vient de conforter le rôle protecteur de la circoncision contre l'infection à VIH. L'excision de la peau du prépuce, fragile cible du virus, en serait à l'origine.

L'enquête se déroule en Inde. A Pune précisément, à l'ouest de Bombay. Dans un service spécialisé dans les maladies sexuellement transmissibles (MST), des médecins suivent le devenir de plusieurs dizaines de patients. Et au fil du temps, ils identifient ceux qui deviennent séropositifs pour le VIH, le virus du SIDA.

La question est de savoir si la circoncision protége ou pas de l'infection. Eh bien, oui ! "L'analyse de nos données a démontré que les circoncis ont 6 fois moins de risques d'être porteurs du virus", révèle Robert Bollinger de l'école médicale Johns Hopkins à Baltimore (USA), qui a mené l'étude en collaboration avec les Indiens de Pune. En vérité, "nos résultats sont en accord avec des études antérieures, qui avaient également suggéré un rôle protecteur de la circoncision."

Comment expliquer ce phénomène ? L'hypothèse la plus vraisemblable serait biologique. "L'excision du prépuce semble en être l'origine. Ce tissu contient en effet des cellules cibles du VIH, en particulier des CD4, et des cellules de Langherans, très facilement accessibles au virus". D'autres auteurs sont persuadés que le rôle protecteur de la circoncision serait dû au comportement sexuel plus responsable des circoncis. Une fausse piste ! Car "nous avons observé aucune réduction des risques de syphilis, d'herpes ou de gonococcie", précise Bollinger. 5-tss.gif5-tss.gif5-tss.gif

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Libye: six Bulgares et un Palestinien condamnés à mort après quatre ans de procès ( AFP, jeudi 6 mai 2004, 13h06)

La justice libyenne a condamné à mort jeudi six Bulgares et un Palestinien accusés d'avoir infecté volontairement des centaines d'enfants du virus du sida dans un hôpital pédiatrique, au terme d'un long procès de quatre ans.

malice.gif Washington et l'Union européenne avaient demandé un procès équitable, rappelant le témoignage en faveur des accusés du co-découvreur du virus de sida, le professeur français Luc Montagnier, et du professeur italien Vittorio Colizzi.

Pour ces deux hommes, l'épidémie était due à de mauvaises conditions hygiéniques dans l'hôpital et s'était déclenchée avant l'arrivée des infirmières

4-bravo.gif Le serpent commence à se mordre la queue 4-bravo.gif

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Attention !

Les médias et certains scientifiques parlent de "vaccin thérapeutique", qui augmenterait l'immunité, et ne combattrait pas le "virus".

J'aimerait trouver une description de la composition de ce "vaccin", mais pour l'instant, je n'ai rien trouvé d'autre que des banalités sur le net.

Donc, à priori, pas besoin de virus pour ce vaccin-là.

Voici ce que j'ai trouvé dans un dico des medicaments

dans la rubrique vaccins et serums

Diammaglobulines (1966)

Composition : immunoglobuline humaine

Indication: maladie infectueuses bacteriennes ou virales,deficite immunitaires

Gamma T.S.(1974)

Composition: immunoglobulines humaine polyvalentes

Indications:maladies virales de l'enfance,deficits immunitaires hepatite A allergies

Immunoglobulines polyvalentes (1983)

Composition:gammaglobulines polyvalentes

Indication: deficits immunitaires congénitaus,deficits immunitaires acquis infections resistant aux antibiotiques

3 - thermo.gif il y avait donc des gens qui avaient des problémes de déficites immunitaires avant 1966 ?

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Invité zen33

Bamboue libre à toi de croire que le VIH existe et est responsable d'une endémie mais si tu lis les interventions précédentes de ce forum tu sais que nous sommes quelques uns à penser autrement.

Concernant la circoncision comme prévention du SIDA, ce serait une bonne blague si personne n'était victime de cette bétise.

Quant aux moutiques, bien sur qu'ils pourraient transmettre le VIH le VIH existait!


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The acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) was first recognized in 1981 and has since become a major worldwide epidemic. AIDS is caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). By leading to the destruction and/or functional impairment of cells of the immune system, notably CD4+ T cells, HIV progressively destroys the body's ability to fight infections and certain cancers.

This document summarizes the abundant evidence that HIV causes AIDS. Questions and answers further on in this document address the specific claims of those who assert that HIV is not the cause of AIDS.

Definition of AIDS

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) currently defines AIDS in an adult or adolescent age 13 years or older as the presence of one of 26 conditions indicative of severe immunosuppression associated with HIV infection, such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP), a condition extraordinarily rare in people without HIV infection. Most other AIDS-defining conditions are also 'opportunistic infections' which rarely cause harm in healthy individuals. A diagnosis of AIDS is also given to HIV-infected individuals with a CD4+ T cell count less than 200 cells per cubic millimeter (mm3) of blood. In children younger than 13 years, the definition of AIDS is similar to that in adolescents and adults, except that lymphoid interstitial pneumonitis and recurrent bacterial infections are included in the list of AIDS-defining conditions.1 2

The designation "AIDS" is a surveillance tool. Surveillance definitions of AIDS have proven useful epidemiologically to track and quantify the recent epidemic of HIV-mediated immunosuppression and its manifestations. However, AIDS represents only the end stage of a continuous, progressive pathogenic process, beginning with primary infection with HIV, continuing with a chronic phase that is usually asymptomatic, and leading to progressively severe symptoms and, ultimately, profound immunodeficiency and opportunistic infections and cancers.

Evidence That HIV Causes AIDS

Before the appearance of HIV, AIDS-related diseases such as PCP, KS and MAC were rare in developed countries; today, they are common in HIV-infected individuals.

Prior to the appearance of HIV, AIDS-related conditions such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP), Kaposi's sarcoma (KS) and disseminated infection with the Mycobacterium avium complex (MAC) were extraordinarily rare in the United States. In a 1967 survey, only 107 cases of PCP in this country had been described in the medical literature, virtually all among individuals with underlying immunosuppressive conditions. Before the AIDS epidemic, the annual incidence of Kaposi's sarcoma in the United States was 0.2 to 0.6 per million population, and only 32 individuals with disseminated MAC disease had been described in the medical literature.3 4 5

By the end of 1999, CDC had received reports of 166, 368 HIV-infected patients in the United States with definitive diagnoses of PCP, 46, 684 with definite diagnoses of KS, and 41,873 with definitive diagnoses of disseminated MAC.

AIDS and HIV infection are invariably linked in time, place and population group.

Historically, the occurrence of AIDS in human populations has closely followed the appearance of HIV. In the United States, the first cases of AIDS were reported in 1981 among homosexual men in New York and California and retrospective examination of frozen blood samples from a cohort of gay men showed the presence of HIV antibodies as early as 1978 but not before then. Subsequently, in every country and city where AIDS has appeared, evidence of HIV infection has preceded AIDS by just a few years.6 7 8

Many studies agree that only a single factor, HIV, predicts whether a person will develop AIDS.

Other viral infections, bacterial infections, sexual behavior patterns and drug abuse patterns do not predict who develops AIDS. Individuals from diverse backgrounds, including heterosexual men and women, homosexual men and women, hemophiliacs, sexual partners of hemophiliacs and transfusion recipients, injection-drug users and infants have all developed AIDS, with the only common denominator being their infection with HIV.9

Numerous serosurveys show that AIDS is common in populations where many individuals have HIV antibodies. Conversely, in populations with low seroprevalence of HIV antibodies, AIDS is extremely rare.

Foe example, in the southern African country of Zimbabwe (population 11.4 million), more than 25 percent of adults ages 15 to 49 are estimated to be HIV-positive, based on numerous studies. As of November 1999, 74, 000 cases of AIDS were reported to the WHO. In contrast, Madagascar, an island country off the southeast coast of Africa (population 15.1) with a very low seroprevalence rate, reported only 37 cases of AIDS to WHO through November 1999. 10

In cohort studies, severe immunosuppression and AIDS-defining illnesses occur exclusively in individuals who are HIV-infected.

Conversely, matched controls, individuals with similar lifestyles but without HIV infection, virtually never suffer these symptoms.

For example, in one cohort in Vancouver, investigators followed 715 homosexual men for a median of 8.6 years. Every case of AIDS in this cohort occurred in individuals who were positive for HIV antibodies. No AIDS-defining illnesses occurred in men who remained negative for HIV antibodies, despite the fact that these men had appreciable patterns of illicit drug use and receptive anal intercourse.11

In some studies conducted, it has been shown that death rates are markedly higher among HIV-seropositive individuals than among HIV-seronegative individuals.

Excess mortality among HIV-seropositive people also has been repeatedly observed in studies in developed countries, perhaps most dramatically among hemophiliacs. For example, 6,278 hemophiliacs where studied in the United Kingdom during the period 1977-91. Among 2,448 with severe hemophilia, the annual death rate was stable at 8 per 1,000 during 1977-84. While deaths rates remained stable at 8 per 1,000 from 1985-92 among HIV-negative persons with severe hemophilia, deaths rose steeply among those who had become HIV-positive following HIV-tainted transfusions during 1979-1986, reaching 81 per 1,000.12

The specific immunologic profile that typifies AIDS -- a persistently low CD4+ T cell count -- is extraordinarily rare in the absence of HIV infection or other known cause of immunosuppression.

For example, in the MACS study, 22,643 CD4+ T-cell counts were carried out, related to 2,713 HIV-negative men. There was only one individual with a CD4 + T-cell count persistently lower than 300 cells/mm3. This individual was taking other drugs that would have had an effect to his CD4 count.13 14

Nearly everyone with AIDS has antibodies to HIV.

A survey of 230,179 AIDS patients in the United States revealed only 299 HIV-seronegative individuals. An evaluation of 172 of these 299 patients found 131 actually to be seropositive; an additional 34 died before their serostatus could be confirmed. 15

HIV can be detected in virtually everyone with AIDS.

Recently developed sensitive testing methods, including the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) and improved culture techniques, have enabled researchers to find HIV in patients with AIDS with few exceptions. HIV has been repeatedly isolated from the blood, semen and vaginal secretions of patients with AIDS, findings consistent with the epidemiologic data demonstrating AIDS transmission via sexual activity and contact with infected blood.16 17

The HIV-infected twin develops AIDS while the uninfected twin does not.

Researchers have documented cases of HIV-infected mothers who have given birth to twins, one of whom is HIV-infected and the other not. The HIV-infected children developed AIDS, while the other children remained clinically and immunologically normal. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Studies of transfusion-acquired AIDS cases have repeatedly led to the discovery of HIV in the patient as well as in the blood donor.

Numerous studies have shown an almost perfect correlation between the occurrence of AIDS in a blood recipient and donor, and evidence of similar HIV strains in both the recipient and the donor.25

HIV causes the death of CD4+ T lymphocytes in vitro and in vivo.

CD4+ T cells are the cells depleted in people with AIDS. Although the loss of CD4+ T cells is not the only immune defect seen in people with AIDS, the observation that HIV also infects and damages these cells in vitro establishes an obvious link between HIV and AIDS. regenerative capacity.26 27

Among HIV-infected patients who receive anti-HIV therapy, those whose viral loads are driven to low levels are much less likely to develop AIDS or die than patients who do not respond to therapy. Such an effect would not be seen if HIV did not have a central role in causing AIDS.

Clinical trials in both HIV-infected children and adults have demonstrated a link between a good virologic response to therapy i.e. a reduced risk of developing AIDS or dying.28 29 30 31 32 33 34

This effect has also been seen in routine clinical practise. For example, in an analysis of 2,674 HIV-infected patients who started highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) in 1995-1998, 6.6 percent of patients who achieved and maintained undetectable viral loads developed AIDS or died within 30 months, compared with 20.1 percent of patients who never achieved undetectable concentrations.35

HIV fulfils Koch's postulates as the cause of AIDS.

Koch's postulates of disease causation stipulate 1) the suspected cause must be strongly associated with the disease, 2) the suspected agent can be isolated and propagated outside the host and 3) that the transfer of the agent to an uninfected host, man or animal, produces the disease in that host.

With regard to postulate 1), numerous studies from around the world show that virtually all AIDS patients are HIV-seropositive: that is they carry antibodies that indicate HIV-infection. With regard of postulate 2), modern techniques have allowed the isolation of HIV in virtually all AIDS patients, as well as in almost all HIV seropositive individuals with both early-and late-stage disease. Postulate 3) has been fulfilled in incident involving three laboratory workers with no other risk factors who developed AIDS or severe immunosuppression after accidental exposure to concentrated, cloned HIV in the laboratory. In all three cases, HIV was isolated from the infected individual, sequenced and shown to be the infecting strain of virus.

In addition, through December 1999, the CDC had received reports of 56 health care workers in the United States with documented, occupationally acquired infection, of whom 25 have developed AIDS in the absence of other risk factors. The development of AIDS following known HIV seroconversion has also been repeatedly observed in pediatric and adult blood transfusion cases, in mother-to-child transmission, and in studies of hemophilia, injecting drug use and sexual transmission in which seroconversion can be documented using serial blood samples.36

Myth: HIV antibody testing is unreliable

Fact: Diagnosis of infection using antibody testing is one of the best-established concepts in medicine. HIV antibody tests exceed the performance of most other infectious disease tests in both sensitivity (the ability of the screening test to give a positive finding when the person tested truly has the disease) and specificity (the ability of the test to give a negative finding when the subjects tested are free of the disease under study). Current HIV antibody tests have sensitivity and specificity in excess of 98% and are therefore extremely reliable.37

Progress in testing methodology has also enabled detection of viral genetic material, antigens and the virus itself in body fluids and cells. While not widely used for routine testing due to high cost and requirements in laboratory equipment, these direct testing techniques have confirmed the validity of the antibody tests.38 39 40 41 42 43

Myth: There is no AIDS in Africa. AIDS is nothing more than a new name for old diseases.

Fact: The diseases that have come to be associated with AIDS in Africa -- such as wasting syndrome, diarrhoeal diseases and TB -- have long been severe burdens there. However, high rates of mortality from these diseases, formerly confined to the elderly and malnourished, are now common among HIV-infected young and middle-aged people.44

For example, in a study in Cote d'Ivoire, HIV-seropositive individuals with pulmonary tuberculosis (TB) were 17 times more likely to die within six months than HIV-seronegative individuals with pulmonary TB.45 In Malawi, mortality over three years among children who had received recommended childhood immunizations and who survived the first year of life was 9.5 times higher among HIV-seropositive children than among HIV-seronegative children. The leading causes of death were wasting syndrome and respiratory conditions. Elsewhere in Africa, findings are similar.46

Myth: HIV cannot be the cause of AIDS because researchers are unable to explain precisely how HIV destroys the immune system.

Fact: A great deal is known about the pathogenesis of HIV disease, even though important details remain to be elucidated. However, a complete understanding of the pathogenesis of a disease is not a prerequisite to knowing its cause. Most infectious agents have been associated with the disease they cause long before their pathogenic mechanisms have been discovered. Because research in pathogenesis is difficult when precise animal models are unavailable, the disease-causing mechanisms in many diseases, including tuberculosis and hepatitis B are poorly understood. The critics' reasoning would lead to the conclusion that M. tuberculosis is not the cause of tuberculosis or that hepatitis B virus is not a cause of liver disease. 47

Myth: AZT and other antiretroviral drugs, not HIV, cause AIDS.

Fact: The vast majority of people with AIDS never received antiretroviral drugs, including those in developed countries prior to the licensure of AZT in 1987, and people in developing countries today where very few individuals have access to these medications. 48

As with medications for any serious diseases, antiretroviral drugs can have toxic side effects. However, there is no evidence that antiretroviral drugs cause the severe immunosuppression that typifies AIDS, and abundant evidence that antiretroviral therapy, when used according to the established guidelines, can improve the length and quality of life of HIV-infected individuals. 49

In the 1980s, clinical trials enrolling patients with AIDS found that AZT given as single-drug therapy conferred a modest (and short-lived) survival advantage compared to placebo. Among HIV-infected patients who had not yet developed AIDS, placebo-controlled trials found that AZT given as single-drug therapy delayed, for a year or two, the onset of AIDS-related illness. Significantly, long-term follow-up of these trails did not show a prolonged benefit of AZT, but also never indicated that the drug increased disease progression or mortality. The lack of excess AIDS cases and death in the AZT arms of these placebo-controlled trials effectively counters the argument that AZT causes AIDS.50

Subsequent clinical trails found that patients receiving two-drug combinations had up to 50 percent increases in time to progression to AIDS and in survival when compared to people receiving single-drug therapy. In more recent years, three-drug combination therapies have produced another 50 percent to 80 percent improvements in progression to AIDS and in survival when compared to two-drug regimens in clinical trials. Use of potent anti-HIV combination therapies has contributed to dramatic reductions in the incidence of AIDS and AIDS-related deaths in populations where these drugs are widely available, an effect which clearly would not be seen if antiretroviral drugs caused AIDS.51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63

Myth: Behavioral factors such as recreational drug use and multiple sexual partners account for AIDS.

Fact: The proposed behavioral causes of AIDS, such as multiple sexual partners and long-term recreational drug use, have existed for many years. The epidemic of AIDS, characterized by the occurrence of formerly rare opportunistic infections such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP) did not occur in the United States until a previously unknown human retrovirus -- HIV -- spread through certain communities.64 65

Compelling evidence against the hypothesis that behavioral factors cause AIDS comes from recent studies that have followed cohorts of homosexual men for long periods of time and found that only HIV-seropositive men develop AIDS.

For example, in a prospectively studied cohort in Vancouver, 715 homosexual men were followed for a median f 8.6 years. Among 365 HIV-positive individuals, 136 developed AIDS. No AIDS-defining illnesses occurred among 350 seronegative men despite the fact that these men reported appreciable use of inhalable nitrites ("poppers") and other recreational drugs, and frequent receptive anal intercourse. 66

Other studies show that among homosexual men and injection drug users, the specific immune deficit that leads to AIDS -- a progressive and sustained loss of CD4+ T cells -- is extremely rare in the absence of other immunosuppressive conditions. In the Multicenter AIDS Cohort Study, more than 22,000 T-cell determinations in 2,713 HIV-seronegative homosexual men revealed only one individual with a CD4+ T cell count persistently lower than 300 cells/mm3, and this individual was receiving immunosuppressive therapy.67

In a survey of 229 HIV-seronegative injection drug users in New York City, mean CD4+ T cell counts of the group were consistently more than 1000 cells/mm3. Only two individuals had two CD4+ T cell measurements of less than 300/mm3, one of whom died with cardiac disease and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma listed as the cause of death. In another study, HIV-seronegative, long-term heroin addicts had mean CD4+ T cell counts of 1500/mm3, while eleven healthy controls had CD4+ counts of 820 cells/mm3.68

Myth: AIDS among transfusion recipients is due to underlying diseases that necessitated the transfusion, rather than to HIV.

Fact: This notion is contradicted by a report by the Transfusion Safety Study Group (TSSG), which compared HIV-negative and HIV-positive blood recipients who had been given transfusions for similar diseases. Approximately 3 years after the transfusion, the mean CD4+ T cell count in 64 HIV-negative recipients was 850/mm3, while 111 HIV-seropositive individuals had average CD4+ T cell count of 375/mm3. By 1993, there were 37 cases of AIDS in the HIV-infected group, but not a single AIDS-defining illness in the HIV-seronegative transfusion recipients.69 70

Myth: High usage of clotting factor, not HIV, leads to CD4+ T-cell reduction and AIDS in hemophiliacs.

Fact: This view is contradicted by several large studies. For example, among HIV-seronegative patients with hemophilia A enrolled in the Transfusion Safety Study, no significant differences in CD4+ T cell counts were noted between 79 patients with no or minimal factor treatment and 52 with the largest amount of lifetime treatments. Patients in both groups had CD4+ T cell counts within the normal range.71 In another report from the Transfusion Safety Study, no instances of AIDS-defining illnesses were seen among 402 HIV-seronegative hemophiliacs who had received factor therapy.72

Myth: The distribution of AIDS cases casts doubt on HIV as the cause. Viruses are not gender-specific, yet only a small proportion of AIDS cases are among women.

Fact: The distribution of AIDS cases, whether in the United States or elsewhere in the world, invariably mirrors the prevalence of HIV in a population. In the United States, HIV first appeared in populations of homosexual men and injection drug users, a majority of whom are male. Because HIV is spread primarily through sex or by the exchange of HIV-contaminated needles during injection drug use, it is not surprising that a majority of U.S. AIDS cases have occurred in men.73

Increasingly, however, women in this country are becoming HIV-infected, usually through the exchange of HIV-contaminated needles or sex with an HIV-infected male. The CDC estimates that 30 percent of new HIV infections in the United States in 1998 were in women. As the number of HIV-infected women has risen, so too has the number of female AIDS patients in the U.S. In 1998, approximately 23 % of adult/adolescent AIDS cases in the United States were among women. In the same year, AIDS was the fifth leading cause of death among women aged 25 to 44 in the U.S. 74

In Africa, HIV was first recognized in sexually active heterosexuals, and AIDS cases in Africa have occurred at least as frequently in women as in men. Overall, the worldwide distribution of HIV infection and AIDS between men and women is approximately 1 to 1.75

Myth: HIV cannot be the cause of AIDS because the body develops a vigorous antibody response to the virus.

Fact: This reasoning ignores numerous examples of viruses other than HIV that can be pathogenic after evidence of immunity appears. Measles virus may persist for years in brain cells, eventually causing a chronic neurologic disease despite the presence of antibodies. Viruses such as cytomegalovirus, herpes simplex and varicella zoster may be activated after years of latency even in the presence of abundant antibodies. In animals, viral relatives of HIV with long and variable latency periods, such as visna virus in sheep, cause central nervous system damage even after the production of antibodies.76

Also, HIV is well recognized as being able to mutate to avoid the ongoing immune response of the host.77

Myth: : Only a small number of CD4+ T cells are infected by HIV, not enough to damage the immune system.

Fact: New techniques such as the polymerase chain reaction have enabled scientists to demonstrate that a much larger proportion of CD4+ T cells are infected than previously realized, particularly in lymphoid tissues. Macrophages and other cell types are also infected with HIV and serve as reservoirs for the virus. Although the fraction of CD4+ T cells that is infected with HIV at any given time is never extremely high (only a small subset of activated cells serve as ideal targets of infection), several groups have shown that rapid cycles of death of infected cells and infection of new target cells occur throughout the course of disease.78

Myth: HIV is not the cause of AIDS because many individuals with HIV have not developed AIDS.

Fact: HIV disease has a prolonged and variable course. The median period of time between infection with HIV and the onset of clinically apparent disease is approximately 10 years, according to prospective studies of homosexual men in which dates of seroconversion are known. Similar estimates of asymptomatic periods have been made for HIV-infected blood-transfusion recipients, injection drug users and adult hemophiliacs. 79

As with many diseases, a number of factors can influence the course of HIV disease. Factors such as age or genetic differences between individuals, the level of virulence of the individual strain of virus, as well as exogenous influences such as co-infection with other microbes may determine the rate and severity of HIV disease expression. Similarly, some people infected with hepatitis B, for example, show no symptoms or only jaundice and clear their infection, while others suffer disease ranging from chronic liver inflammation to cirrhosis and hepatocellular carcinoma. Co-factors probably also determine why some smokers develop lung cancer, while others do not.80 81 82

Myth: Some people have many symptoms associated with AIDS but do not have HIV infection.

Fact: Most AIDS symptoms result from the development of opportunistic infections and cancers associated with severe immunosuppression secondary to HIV.

However, immunosuppression has many other potential causes. Individuals who take glucocorticoids and/or immunosuppressive drugs to prevent transplant rejection or for autoimmune diseases can have increased susceptibility to unusual infections, as do individuals with certain genetic conditions, severe malnutrition and certain kinds of cancers. There is no evidence suggesting that the numbers of such cases have risen, while abundant epidemiologic evidence shows a staggering rise in cases of immunosuppression among individuals who share one characteristic: HIV infection.83 84

Myth: The spectrum of AIDS-related infections seen in different populations proves that AIDS is actually many diseases not caused by HIV.

Fact: The diseases associated with AIDS, such as PCP and Mycobacterium avium complex (MAC) are not caused by HIV but rather result from the immunosuppression caused by HIV disease. As the immune system of an HIV-infected individual weakens, he or she becomes susceptible to the particular viral, fungal and bacterial infections common in the community. For example, HIV-infected people in certain midwestern and mid-Atlantic regions are much more likely than people in New York City to develop histoplasmosis, which is caused by a fungus. A person in Africa is exposed to different pathogens than is an individual in an American city. Children may be exposed to different infectious agents than adults.85

Click here for references

The above information was taken from the NIAID Fact Sheet

The Evidence That HIV Causes AIDS

National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

National Institutes of Health

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The NIAID Fact Sheet

The Evidence That HIV Causes AIDS

National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

National Institutes of Health


Il y a une réfutation dissidente très rigoureuse de ce document sur :

Si on regarde de près, le texte du NIAID n'a aucune référence - ça ce n'est pas scientifique du tout, ça c'est de la dictature!

Le même équipe a aussi publié une réfutation de la Déclaration de Durban qui heureusement est en français :

Tout de bon


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Definition of AIDS

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) currently defines AIDS in an adult or adolescent age 13 years or older as the presence of one of 26 conditions indicative of severe immunosuppression associated with HIV infection, such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP), a condition extraordinarily rare in people without HIV infection. Most other AIDS-defining conditions are also 'opportunistic infections' which rarely cause harm in healthy individuals. A diagnosis of AIDS is also given to HIV-infected individuals with a CD4+ T cell count less than 200 cells per cubic millimeter (mm3) of blood

Il s'agit de la définition de 93, où l'on voit que pour qu'il y ait sida, il faut qu'il ait une des 26 maladies + la séropositivité. Ceux qui ont une de ces 26 maladies sans la séropositivité souffrent d'une autre maladie que le sida, selon les dires mêmes du CDC.

Cette définition est donc circulaire et ne prouve rien du tout. En même temps, elle rend caduc tout le reste du document.

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84 UNAIDS (2000), 'Report on the Global HIV/AIDS Epidemic', June

85AIDS Knowledge Base (2002), in







Last updated July 15, 2002

Modifié par lavienrose
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Donne-nous donc quelques extraits de ces références, et explicite-les nous!


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Invité lavienrose

Donne-nous donc quelques extraits de ces références, et explicite-les nous!


le texte que j'ai collé est très clair , les réf en cautionnent l'argumentation, c'est vous qui devriez démontrer en quoi il serait erronné , au lieu de le balayer d'un revers de main dédaigneux.....adressez -vous plutot aux rédacteurs de ce texte et démontrez leurs qu'ils ont tort.....

La structure génétique et biochimique du sida est connue, les mécanismes qui font que cette maladie évolue sont connus. Le mode de mutation du virus est élucidé ainsi que d'autres facteurs.

des vaccins sont à l'essai , des medicaments existent et c'est la recherche qui triomphera du virus , pas la dissidence!

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Invité zen33

Les faits nous montrent que bien souvent la « normalité » repose sur la manipulation et qu'il ne fait pas bon être dissident.

Voir par exemple « exercice illégal de la guérison »

Ce forum permet un échange libre, avec peu de risque, nous pouvons partager nos opinions sans souhaiter triompher de l'autre mais simplement apporter notre pierre à un projet commun d'information pour le profit de tous.

Chacun est libre de se faire un avis en lisant les arguments exprimés par les uns et les autres.

Lavienrose défend la théorie « officiel » du Sida et nous sommes quelques uns à défendre une autre vision.

S'il est vrai que je suis parfois irrité par des interventions qui me semblent de mauvaise foi, je ne m'exprime pas pour convaincre mais simplement parce qu'il me paraît nécessaire de participer à la diffusion d'une autre vision de la maladie, vision que le systéme en place tente d'étouffer.

Il n'y a pas si longtemps, on obligeait tout le monde à croire ou à dire que la terre était plate, la terre n'en était pas moins ronde pour autant.

La force peut triompher momentanément sur des individus mais ne change rien à la vérité.

La vérité fait son chemin et chacun fait le sien.

Lavienrose, c'est avec respect que je lis tes interventions mais j'ai du mal à comprendre ta démarche.

Bien que tenant de la théorie officielle, j'ai l'impression que tu manques sérieusement d'arguments.

J'ai été voir les « photos » que tu nous proposes de consulter, je suis loin d'être convaincu et il me semble que l'on peut trouver sur internet des « photos » d'extra terrestre de la même qualité « photo ».

Quant au texte que tu nous proposes, Mark t'a donné le lien d'une réponse scientifique à ce texte.

Tu peux constater, comme nous, que la valeur scientifique ou la crédibilité du texte que tu nous proposes laisse pour le moins à désirer.

Il n'y a pas de revers de main dédaigneux mais une réponse scientifique point par point à un document qui apparaît de maigre valeur scientifique et qui est pourtant un des rares documents tentant de justifier le lien HIV-SIDA.

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L'argumentaire du nih repose sur le fait que l'on déclare malade du sida toute personne séropositive à certaines protéines.

Et il est certain que les véritables malades du sida (maladies opportunistes) présentent des taux élevés de toutes ces protéines, qui sont certainement associées à une présence anormale de certains ARN.

Je ferai cependant remarquer que le diagnostic de rougeole se fait sur des symptomes précis, et que les tests biologiques ne sont généralement pas utilisés pour confirmer ce diagnostic (il y a d'ailleurs un gros problème actuellement car nos médecins ne sont pratiquement plus capables de poser un tel diagnostic, la phase aiguë de la maladie étant cachée par la vaccination).

Donc, toute démarche logique devrait être : on diagnostique une maladie à partir de symptômes, et les tests doivent à tous les coups être positifs. Or il s'avère qu'en 93, pour qu'il n'y ait plus de personnes non séropositives malades d'une des 26 conditions déjà citées qui soient comptabilisées comme cas de sida, on a défini le sida par rapport aux tests et non pas par rapport à la clinique.

En fait, c'est un véritable changement de paradigme médical qui a lieu avec le sida, car de plus en plus, on va déclarer telle ou telle maladie, non pas à partir de la clinique, mais à partir de tests qui ne seront validés que par la présomption qu'ils sont caractéristiques de telle ou telle maladie.

On peut d'ailleurs se demander à quoi servent encore les médecins, s'il ne savent plus faire de diagnostic sans tests chimiques.

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La vie en rose

Ce forum est un forum de discussions sur les hypotheses du fameux syndrome non un forum pour des publicités pour des médicaments carrement abjectes.

Moi je suis seropositif; j'ai déja plusieurs expliqué mon parcours et aujourd'hui je serais surement mort si j'avais continué a bouffer ces saloperies ( seropo depuis 1988 mis sous traitement de 1998 à 2000)........

Aujourd'hui les seules maladies et problemes de sante que j ai font partis des effets secondaires inscrits sur la notice de toutes les saloperies dont tu fais OUTRAGEUSEMENT la publicité...

Alors il y à deux solutions :

Soit tu travailles pour le $ida


Soit tu es completement débile, tetu,borné...atteint de syndrome d'intelligence defaillante acquise et merite comme condamnation un traitement à l'azt en intraveineuse à raison de 2500 mgrs par jour, histoire de voir si cela pourrait te soigner.

Je n'arrive a plus supporter des discours monstreux comme les tiens, alors please : GET OUT !


Pour terminer :

Tu fais reference à une étude disant toutes les personnes ayant le sida ont des anticorps candidose par exemple fait partie du sida....or des millions de personnes en sont porteurs et tous ne testent pas seropositive !!....

le triflucan et la fungizone se vendent en france dans des proportions identiques aux antibiotiques (logiques) y a 100 000 seropos en france........idem pour les pneumocystoses a carini qui touchent toutes les personnes greffées........en gros tout ce qui risque de t'arriver si on te greffe un cerveau !

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